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donut
0
While obviously a pity these guys have died it's not an unusual occurrence.
They know the risks and race anyway knowing that if the worst happens then at least they have died doing something that they enjoy.
LewFZ1
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Sorry I am think that is one of the most over used statements in Motor cycle sport
They have died doing something they enjoyed doing, usually followed by RIP.
It is time this event was stopped or else made a hell of a lot safer.
There have been 5 fatalities this year the death rate is going up year on year.
No doubt I will get hammered for this. I have been a road race fan since I was 14 and still go to at least one or two road races a year in N Ireland. I have never been to the TT as one it is to bloody expensive to get there and two to what see the riders go past every 17 minutes for 5 laps. No thanks. My last road race was the Tandragee 100 last year. There was a young gun called Malaci Mitchell Thomas, a new wonder kid on the block. He was flying and everyone was raving about him. I thought to myself then, son you are quick but take your time and learn the track and your craft as well. He was killed at the NW200 about a month later.
The death toll in this year’s TT Races which finished on Friday is just one fewer than the worst year for the event, which was 1970, when there were six fatalities.
They have died doing something they enjoyed doing, usually followed by RIP.
It is time this event was stopped or else made a hell of a lot safer.
There have been 5 fatalities this year the death rate is going up year on year.
No doubt I will get hammered for this. I have been a road race fan since I was 14 and still go to at least one or two road races a year in N Ireland. I have never been to the TT as one it is to bloody expensive to get there and two to what see the riders go past every 17 minutes for 5 laps. No thanks. My last road race was the Tandragee 100 last year. There was a young gun called Malaci Mitchell Thomas, a new wonder kid on the block. He was flying and everyone was raving about him. I thought to myself then, son you are quick but take your time and learn the track and your craft as well. He was killed at the NW200 about a month later.
The death toll in this year’s TT Races which finished on Friday is just one fewer than the worst year for the event, which was 1970, when there were six fatalities.
PM2017
0
The bumps in the road could be smoothed out by the councils surely?
Make the track as flat and as grippy as posssible?
It would be nigh on impossible to eliminate the curbs, lamposts, walls, houses, hedgerows and other static immovable objects but cancel the whole event - unthinkable...
Make the track as flat and as grippy as posssible?
It would be nigh on impossible to eliminate the curbs, lamposts, walls, houses, hedgerows and other static immovable objects but cancel the whole event - unthinkable...
Stripy
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Lew, i'm with you on this one.
Way too many deaths during this event, safety needs improving.
I have in my past being doing the Danish Championships on road and on track - with not a single fatality in those 8 years i was in it.
It can be done.
Way too many deaths during this event, safety needs improving.
I have in my past being doing the Danish Championships on road and on track - with not a single fatality in those 8 years i was in it.
It can be done.
donut
0
Sorry I am think that is one of the most over used statements in Motor cycle sport
They have died doing something they enjoyed doing, usually followed by RIP.
Tends to be what the families often to say so I'm not going to criticise that.
It is time this event was stopped or else made a hell of a lot safer.
There have been 5 fatalities this year the death rate is going up year on year.
Thought it was 3 deaths this year and according to this link I'd say the average is a steady 2 to 3 with occasional spikes.
List of Snaefell Mountain Course fatalities - Wikipedia
Obviously as speeds increase the chance of a death following an accident increases but to say ban the TT is (in my opinion) bowing to a nanny state and the health and safety bureaucrats.
The death toll in this yearÂ’s TT Races which finished on Friday is just one fewer than the worst year for the event, which was 1970, when there were six fatalities.
Again, according to the link above (if Wikipedia can be trusted), it looks like the trend is generally downward.
If you want to go down the stopping of needless deaths route lets stop all dangerous activities, e.g. mountain climbing. Comparing climbing Everest (1922 to 2017 - 292 deaths) to the TT (1911 to 2017 - 255) I'd say the TT is less dangerous. There were 24 deaths on Everest in 2015 alone with 6 so far this year.
Even angling has it's fair share of deaths but you don't hear many calls for that to be banned or to stop people running marathons as that also accounts for a few deaths each year.
They have died doing something they enjoyed doing, usually followed by RIP.
Tends to be what the families often to say so I'm not going to criticise that.
It is time this event was stopped or else made a hell of a lot safer.
There have been 5 fatalities this year the death rate is going up year on year.
Thought it was 3 deaths this year and according to this link I'd say the average is a steady 2 to 3 with occasional spikes.
List of Snaefell Mountain Course fatalities - Wikipedia
Obviously as speeds increase the chance of a death following an accident increases but to say ban the TT is (in my opinion) bowing to a nanny state and the health and safety bureaucrats.
The death toll in this yearÂ’s TT Races which finished on Friday is just one fewer than the worst year for the event, which was 1970, when there were six fatalities.
Again, according to the link above (if Wikipedia can be trusted), it looks like the trend is generally downward.
If you want to go down the stopping of needless deaths route lets stop all dangerous activities, e.g. mountain climbing. Comparing climbing Everest (1922 to 2017 - 292 deaths) to the TT (1911 to 2017 - 255) I'd say the TT is less dangerous. There were 24 deaths on Everest in 2015 alone with 6 so far this year.
Even angling has it's fair share of deaths but you don't hear many calls for that to be banned or to stop people running marathons as that also accounts for a few deaths each year.
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LewFZ1
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I did correct my earlier post it was 3 riders and 2 bikers, sky sports reporting error Below is a reply I posted on another forum.
I am not against the TT but more needs to be done than is being done.
There have been 60 riders killed on the IOM TT/Manx GP since 2000 /2017. That works out at 3.53 riders killed every year and you say you do not want to see HSE interfering with our sport.
Given that approx 180 riders compete at each event tt & mgp and taking the statistics for the last 17 years this works out at a fatality rate of 1.3% a year, that is unless my maths are wrong. Sorry but this is no longer acceptable. The TT organisers will not be happy until they can say the TT is the worlds fastest road race. That honour goes to the UGP which has also had it's share of fatalities 4 since the turn of the century. That is not a record to be proud off but at least the race organisers work hard at track safety and improvements, perhaps the money grabbing Manx could up there game a bit more.
I am not against the TT but more needs to be done than is being done.
There have been 60 riders killed on the IOM TT/Manx GP since 2000 /2017. That works out at 3.53 riders killed every year and you say you do not want to see HSE interfering with our sport.
Given that approx 180 riders compete at each event tt & mgp and taking the statistics for the last 17 years this works out at a fatality rate of 1.3% a year, that is unless my maths are wrong. Sorry but this is no longer acceptable. The TT organisers will not be happy until they can say the TT is the worlds fastest road race. That honour goes to the UGP which has also had it's share of fatalities 4 since the turn of the century. That is not a record to be proud off but at least the race organisers work hard at track safety and improvements, perhaps the money grabbing Manx could up there game a bit more.
donut
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Don't think Lew and I will agree on the TT but this article sums up my view very nicely.
Why the Isle of Man TT matters | Canada Moto Guide
The 2017 Isle of Man TT is over. The fans have packed up and headed for the ferry, the race teams have loaded their vans, and the locals can go back to their routine (at least, until the Classic TT later this summer).
Now, it’s time for the naysayers to start their yearly refrain, calling for the TT’s cancellation. They’ll point to the three fatalities at this year’s races, and say it’s time to shut the event down for good.
They’re wrong.
The three racers who died this year are Davey Lambert, a Brit who was killed in a crash in the Superbike race; Jochem van den Hoek, a Dutchman who crashed in the Superstock race; and Irishman Alan Bonner, who died in practice for the Senior TT. None of these men were international roadracing stars, but they had achieved enough competency to earn a spot at the TT, and that in itself is a notable feat.
I don’t wish to belittle the loss of these men, or the grief and pain felt by their friends and families. But, the answer to these tragedies is not to shut down the TT. Instead, let’s look at some numbers.
The Isle of Man’s Snaefell Mountain Course is a very dangerous place. There’s no room for error in many sections, with zero run-off.
According to this document, there have been 255 rider deaths at the Isle of Man’s Mountain Course since 1911 (some sources place total number of fatalities, including course workers and spectators, as high as 270). The first casualty was Victor John Surridge, a member of the long-defunct Rudge factory team. Since then, competitors have died every decade at the Isle of Man TT. Some years see no fatalities, but other years see multiple deaths. The worst year for the TT was 1970, which saw six riders die (in 2005, the Mountain Course saw 11 deaths, including the fatalities from the Manx GP races also held there).
You can’t fudge those numbers. The Mountain Circuit is dangerous at high speed. And yet, riders show up every year to race, many of them repeat visitors. Nobody forces them to come.
Perhaps this year’s most high-profile example is Guy Martin, the working-class street circuit hero who came back to the IOMTT this year after taking 2016 off. Martin’s smashed up badly at the TT before; his fiery 2010 crash is legendary, and he had another bad accident at the Ulster GP in 2015 (a similar event, also run on public roads) that could have ended his career. In fact, he took a few months off, and was considered retired.
Yet, in 2017, Martin was back, racing again. Nobody forced him to come back—in fact, he ended up sitting out the Senior TT, after bike trouble put him off-track earlier in the week; you can’t even blame a big paycheck for his return. Despite being visibly shaken by that crash aboard the Honda superbike, he still managed a second-place finish later in the TT Zero electric motorcycle race. Martin made his own choices, to race or not to race, and lived by them. He’s survived the week to race another year, or not. It’s his decision.
His attitude is best summed up with his famous quote: “”If you think it’s too dangerous then go home and cut your lawn and leave us to it.”
Although it’s a time-honoured tradition and the fans love it, that’s not enough reason to keep the TT alive. We should keep the TT alive because it reminds us of a basic choice we all make: to live with risk, or not to.
The Isle of Man TT shouldn’t continue running simply to honour the memories of dead racers. It shouldn’t be kept alive just because it’s a ripping good set of races. It would be silly to keep it alive because it’s a time-honoured tradition. The best reason to keep it alive is because it’s an embodiment of a choice we all have: To live our lives in a matter we choose, whether or not it makes sense to our neighbours.
The Isle of Man’s Snaefell Mountain Course is a 37.73-mile throwback to times when the world was more dangerous and people lived with much more risk than we do today—and they accepted those risks, partly because they realized we’re all mortal. As Chuck Palahinchuk put it, “On a long enough time line, the survival rate for everyone will drop to zero.” It’s a grim thought, but everybody’s birth certificate comes with an expiry date.
For some people, the chance to do what they love most and reach a lifelong goal before that day comes, is worth the risk of coming to that day sooner.
After all, isn’t a decision like that how most of us end up motorcycling to start with?
Why the Isle of Man TT matters | Canada Moto Guide
The 2017 Isle of Man TT is over. The fans have packed up and headed for the ferry, the race teams have loaded their vans, and the locals can go back to their routine (at least, until the Classic TT later this summer).
Now, it’s time for the naysayers to start their yearly refrain, calling for the TT’s cancellation. They’ll point to the three fatalities at this year’s races, and say it’s time to shut the event down for good.
They’re wrong.
The three racers who died this year are Davey Lambert, a Brit who was killed in a crash in the Superbike race; Jochem van den Hoek, a Dutchman who crashed in the Superstock race; and Irishman Alan Bonner, who died in practice for the Senior TT. None of these men were international roadracing stars, but they had achieved enough competency to earn a spot at the TT, and that in itself is a notable feat.
I don’t wish to belittle the loss of these men, or the grief and pain felt by their friends and families. But, the answer to these tragedies is not to shut down the TT. Instead, let’s look at some numbers.
The Isle of Man’s Snaefell Mountain Course is a very dangerous place. There’s no room for error in many sections, with zero run-off.
According to this document, there have been 255 rider deaths at the Isle of Man’s Mountain Course since 1911 (some sources place total number of fatalities, including course workers and spectators, as high as 270). The first casualty was Victor John Surridge, a member of the long-defunct Rudge factory team. Since then, competitors have died every decade at the Isle of Man TT. Some years see no fatalities, but other years see multiple deaths. The worst year for the TT was 1970, which saw six riders die (in 2005, the Mountain Course saw 11 deaths, including the fatalities from the Manx GP races also held there).
You can’t fudge those numbers. The Mountain Circuit is dangerous at high speed. And yet, riders show up every year to race, many of them repeat visitors. Nobody forces them to come.
Perhaps this year’s most high-profile example is Guy Martin, the working-class street circuit hero who came back to the IOMTT this year after taking 2016 off. Martin’s smashed up badly at the TT before; his fiery 2010 crash is legendary, and he had another bad accident at the Ulster GP in 2015 (a similar event, also run on public roads) that could have ended his career. In fact, he took a few months off, and was considered retired.
Yet, in 2017, Martin was back, racing again. Nobody forced him to come back—in fact, he ended up sitting out the Senior TT, after bike trouble put him off-track earlier in the week; you can’t even blame a big paycheck for his return. Despite being visibly shaken by that crash aboard the Honda superbike, he still managed a second-place finish later in the TT Zero electric motorcycle race. Martin made his own choices, to race or not to race, and lived by them. He’s survived the week to race another year, or not. It’s his decision.
His attitude is best summed up with his famous quote: “”If you think it’s too dangerous then go home and cut your lawn and leave us to it.”
Although it’s a time-honoured tradition and the fans love it, that’s not enough reason to keep the TT alive. We should keep the TT alive because it reminds us of a basic choice we all make: to live with risk, or not to.
The Isle of Man TT shouldn’t continue running simply to honour the memories of dead racers. It shouldn’t be kept alive just because it’s a ripping good set of races. It would be silly to keep it alive because it’s a time-honoured tradition. The best reason to keep it alive is because it’s an embodiment of a choice we all have: To live our lives in a matter we choose, whether or not it makes sense to our neighbours.
The Isle of Man’s Snaefell Mountain Course is a 37.73-mile throwback to times when the world was more dangerous and people lived with much more risk than we do today—and they accepted those risks, partly because they realized we’re all mortal. As Chuck Palahinchuk put it, “On a long enough time line, the survival rate for everyone will drop to zero.” It’s a grim thought, but everybody’s birth certificate comes with an expiry date.
For some people, the chance to do what they love most and reach a lifelong goal before that day comes, is worth the risk of coming to that day sooner.
After all, isn’t a decision like that how most of us end up motorcycling to start with?
LewFZ1
0
List of Snaefell Mountain Course fatalities - Wikipedia
I wonder if this poor bugger would agree. THIS IS A VERY GRAFIC VIDEO DO NOT WATCH IT IS A FATALITY 2014
FATAL ACCIDENT Died in a CRASH at BALLAUGH on the TT ISLE OF MAN (full video 720p HD ORGINAL ) - YouTube
I wonder if this poor bugger would agree. THIS IS A VERY GRAFIC VIDEO DO NOT WATCH IT IS A FATALITY 2014
FATAL ACCIDENT Died in a CRASH at BALLAUGH on the TT ISLE OF MAN (full video 720p HD ORGINAL ) - YouTube
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donut
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Probably would.
I can't understand anyone wanting to put that on YouTube it's horrific can you imagine if a family member of that rider were to see it.
LewFZ1
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I think he just may have said oh fuc-, doubt very much if he had known how his day was going to turn out he would have stayed in bed.
We are all the same we think it will not happen to us.
To get off the TT topic now ,have you ever had a day on the bike were you lack confidence and ride like a complete tit?? Sadly the older I am getting I have days like that all to often now.
I suspect it is because since I moved to France from Spain I am mostly riding on my own now. I had a good friend down in Spain who usually let me know when I was riding like a tit. He was ex London met traffic bike cop, he was silky smooth. He would sort me out in 30 minutes. Usually it was tuck in and follow me , trust me and when you feel comfortable if you think you can try and get past me. Boy did we have some fun. I have never been that fast on a bike but can move it okay if pushed .When I am getting out of my comfort zone I have sense enough to back off. Thing is the older I get the faster I was lol.
Sorry but you re missing the point. Its a road race and its 37.3 mile laps. and a massive challenge all that entry do so knowing the risks as in the nw 200 the ulster gp etc etc to make it safer is down to the the government there. also we all have a favourite route we think we arw gods round and that one day it goes wrong should we ban that road
LewFZ1
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The organisers of the NW 200 and UGP are the ones who lobby the NI assembly for funding to make the road racing scene in N Ireland safer.
Do the organisers of the TT do the same? if not they should as the money spent on the IOM goes into the local economy.
Your comment about favourite roads is already taken care of, as in if they become an accident black spot the local authority will or can put traffic calming measures in place. Speed cameras, speed humps.
Look at the Cat & Fiddle road , average speed cameras all over the place, and many other roads around the country+ the old bill being out and about.
Do the organisers of the TT do the same? if not they should as the money spent on the IOM goes into the local economy.
Your comment about favourite roads is already taken care of, as in if they become an accident black spot the local authority will or can put traffic calming measures in place. Speed cameras, speed humps.
Look at the Cat & Fiddle road , average speed cameras all over the place, and many other roads around the country+ the old bill being out and about.